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Reply to the Comments of Olivier Pauluis to the paper A Third-Law Isentropic Analysis of a Simulated Hurricane

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 نشر من قبل Pascal Marquet
 تاريخ النشر 2018
  مجال البحث فيزياء
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A careful reading of old articles puts Olivier Pauluis criticisms concerning the definition of isentropic processes in terms of a potential temperature closely associated with the entropy of moist air, together with the third principle of thermodynamics, into perspective.

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105 - Pascal Marquet 2019
Calculations of entropy fluxes and production rate have been evaluated with some success to study atmospheric processes. However, recurring questions arise as to how best to take into account entropy flux due to radiation, for example. This article r aises another kind of question: how to define the entropy of the atmosphere itself, which is composed of variable proportions of dry air (nitrogen, oxygen, argon, etc.) and water (vapour, liquid, ice). The specific values of the entropy for such a variable composition system depend on the reference values of its components. Most of the current definitions are based on entropies set at zero for dry air and liquid water at zero degrees Celsius. Differently, the third law of thermodynamics assumes that the entropy of all species cancels out for the more stable solid state at the zero of absolute temperatures. In this paper, we analyze the possible consequences of this absolute definition of entropy of moist air on the calculation of entropy fluxes. The impacts of moisture are significant and these new calculation methods seem to be able to modify the budgets of atmospheric entropy, with possible impacts on the nature of the equilibrium of the atmosphere resulting from entropic imbalances induced by radiations.
247 - Pascal Marquet 2019
It is important to be able to calculate the moist-air entropy of the atmosphere with precision. A potential temperature has already been defined from the third law of thermodynamics for this purpose. However, a doubt remains as to whether this entrop y potential temperature can be represented with simple but accurate first- or second-order approximate formulas. These approximations are rigorously defined in this paper using mathematical arguments and numerical adjustments to some datasets. The differentials of these approximations lead to simple but accurate formulations for tendencies, gradients and turbulent fluxes of the moist-air entropy. Several physical consequences based on these approximations are described and can serve to better understand moist-air processes (like turbulence or diabatic forcing) or properties of certain moist-air quantities (like the static energies).
In a recent paper Rousseau-Rizzi and Emanuel (2019) presented a derivation of an upper limit on maximum hurricane velocity at the surface. This derivation was based on a consideration of an infinitely narrow (differential) Carnot cycle with the warme r isotherm at the point of the maximum wind velocity. Here we show that this derivation neglected a significant term describing the kinetic energy change in the outflow. Additionally, we highlight the importance of a proper accounting for the power needed to lift liquid water. Finally, we provide a revision to the formula for surface fluxes of heat and momentum showing that, if we accept the assumptions adopted by Rousseau-Rizzi and Emanuel (2019), the resulting velocity estimate does not depend on the flux of sensible heat.
A framework is introduced to compare moist `potential temperatures. The equivalent potential temperature, $theta_e,$ the liquid water potential temperature, $theta_ell,$ and the entropy potential temperature, $theta_s$ are all shown to be potential t emperatures in the sense that they measure the temperature moist-air, in some specified state, must have to have the same entropy as the air-parcel that they characterize. They only differ in the choice of reference state composition: $theta_ell$ describes the temperature a condensate-free state, $theta_e$ a vapor-free state, and $theta_s$ a water-free state would require to have the same entropy as the given state. Although in this sense $theta_e,$ $theta_ell,$ and $theta_s$ are all different flavors of the same thing, only $theta_ell$ satisfies the stricter definition of a `potential temperature, as corresponding to a reference temperature accessible by an isentropic and closed transformation of a system in equilibrium; only $theta_e$ approximately measures the ability of moist-air to do work; and only $theta_s$ measures air-parcel entropy. None mix linearly, but all do so approximately, and all reduce to the dry potential temperature, $theta$ in the limit as the water mass fraction goes to zero. As is well known, $theta$ does mix linearly and inherits all the favorable (entropic, enthalpic, and potential temperature) properties of its various -- but descriptively less rich -- moist counterparts. All, involve quite complex expressions, but admit relatively simple and useful approximations. Of the three moist `potential temperatures, $theta_s$ is the least familiar, but the most well mixed in the broader tropics, a property that merits further study as a basis for constraining mixing processes.
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